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Sunday, November 22, 2015

Surly Sunday Screed: Pantene isn't crap

I got my hair cut recently and complained a little about it on Instagram. I tend to only get it cut a couple of times a year. I try for every 3-4 months, but I usually don't manage it. I put it off for a long time for a few reasons: it's expensive; I don't particularly enjoy making small talk with a stranger for an hour; I have to take my glasses off and, because my eyesight is so poor, that adds to the awkwardness; and I don't have a regular stylist now, so it's always a gamble trying to find someone new who will give you a cut you like. That means there's a lot riding on each salon visit. I went back to the salon I usually go to (though the stylist I used to see left a while back), which I like for two main reasons. First, they give a scalp massage before the cut, which can be amazing. Second, they don't pressure me too much to buy their products, which I can't afford. They usually tell me what they're using, and why, which is interesting, but that's it. And I have actually purchased some of the things they used in the past, but I can't swing it now, and I don't like the hard sell.

Well, this time the gamble did not pay off, and I could tell it was not going to be a great experience from the beginning. As soon as I sat down, she asked me what kind of shampoo and conditioner I use. Never a good sign. My hair is very dry in general -- and especially at that moment because I had been avoiding buying new products for a few months, and instead just using up some old shampoo I had on hand for my boyfriend that was not doing anything to help the dryness. I was also using some expensive, "natural" conditioner that was equally useless. So I mumbled some (drugstore) brand name, and she immediately launched into a lecture about why "grocery store" and "drugstore" products are terrible for your hair. You've heard it before. They deposit "wax" on your hair which builds up and makes it rough and dry (unlike the expensive "natural," "botanical" products she could sell me). She explained that the reason my hair doesn't take a curl is because I have all this gunk on it that won't allow styling products to penetrate the hair, because it's like having a plastic glove over my hair. (Do I want hairspray to penetrate my hair? That's not generally how it works.) Never mind that my hair has never curled well with heat, even when I was a child. The worst part was that she delivered this inept and misinformed lecture while giving me my scalp massage, so she was half-assing the massage, and I was simultaneously annoyed by the nonsense she was spouting.

I know there are worse things going on in the world right now. This ranks as an annoyance, not a disaster.

I don't entirely blame the hair stylist, because I know that this sort of thing is part of her training and part of her job. It's what she's been taught, and she believes what she's saying. "Pantene is horrible because it deposits silicone on your hair and it builds up and forms a film that weighs down your hair." Yes, most conditioners deposit a film on your hair. That's how they work. It's the film that makes it soft and smooth and shiny (with the exception of very few ingredients, like coconut oil). That is true for both drugstore and salon conditioners and styling products. All you have to do is look at the ingredients to see that they are very similar in higher and lower end products. Silicone is fine for your hair - it washes right out with shampoo. So even if you are concerned about build-up, all you have to do is use a clarifying shampoo once or twice a week to clear it up. I know that some people with curly hair prefer to avoid silicone, which is a legit choice - but even if you accidentally use a product containing it, it's easy to shampoo out. If silicone didn't wash off with soap or detergent, most of us would have a thick coating of it on our skin, because it's also an ingredient in a lot of lotions and moisturizers.

Pantene adds more silicone than some other products, because they make a conditioning shampoo. You can read all the specifics of how it works in this post from The Beauty Brains, in which they also answer someone's question about why Pantene isn't sold in salons if it's "so good." The answer, in short, is because they wouldn't make nearly as much money from it as they do now. (Sidenote: I'm really sad that when The Beauty Brains lost their archives, they lost the post in which they collaborated with a stylist who swore she could tell the difference between hair washed with drugstore and salon products. In a blind test she was right less than 50% of the time - which suggests that if she was choosing the "nicer" hair, the drugstore product might have been better. It was so good.)

Anyway, the anti-drugstore spiel that you get from hair stylists and that other people repeat over and over is another version of "it's better because it costs more." Some expensive products are great, and some are crappy; ditto for cheaper stuff like Pantene. Here's an good explanation of why people think cheap things are worse, even though there is little correspondence between cost and value today (h/t Liz, thanks!):


In the end, I also didn't get the haircut I wanted (if I can tuck them behind my ears, they aren't bangs!), and I had to leave to get lunch with some friends, so I couldn't stick around to get it fixed. But the most annoying part was the concern-trolling, nonsensical sales pitch. Experiences like these are why I don't relate much to people who find getting a hair cut relaxing. If you do, I guess I need to go to your stylist!

13 comments:

  1. I couldn't agree with you more. I have dry, curly hair, and while I don't avoid silicone products, I do avoid shampoo. It's too drying, and while I have found one shampoo that didn't completely dry out my hair, I wasn't impressed enough with the results to justify buying it. I wash my hair with conditioner, which my stylist is perfectly okay with and even has her own daughter (who also has curly hair) practice.

    Now, a lot of people will recommend WEN for this, and that's okay. WEN is okay, but I tend to find it a little too close to Pantene for me to justify the price of buying it. Not to mention, I find that cheaper products like Suave work best for actually cleansing my hair, and then I follow up with a hair mask or thicker conditioner to make my hair soft. I have had so many good results from cheaper products, but I've only found maybe one or two expensive products I like. Living Proof has some great products, but I've tried other brands of high end conditioner that actually managed to dry my hair out even more.

    I tend to stick with what's worked for me. Suave, Pantene, Herbal Essences, and Dove have treated me well. I have no complaints.

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    1. I have read that the ingredients in Wen are nearly the same as in a lot of light/cheap conditioners, so they are ideal for co-washing. My hair is really dry at the ends, but oily at the scalp, so that method won't work for me, but it seems to be great for a lot of people.

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    2. Hmm... about Wen ingredients... Not to self-promote (and please delete if not ok), but I wrote a long and angry post about this a while back. The gist is that there are two versions of Wen Cleansing Conditioner that look the same. The only way to tell the difference is to look at the list of the ingredients. First for ingredients on the original one are Water, Aloe Vera Gel, Glycerin, Chamomile Extract. The second one is what was called "reformulated" and "international" version. First four ingredients - Water, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol. I'm not the one to make natural vs unnatural comparisons (or care about them), but to me it looks like the second version contains cheaper ingredients. This is the version you get when you buy it though discounted channels, like "sign up for periodic shipments and receive product at a discount".
      I don't think that there is anything wrong with this second version or it's ingredients. But I do think it's wrong to mislead consumers.
      My point is that second version of Wen has ingredients common for drugstore conditioners. And from my experience it functions about the same (tend to cause build up). I never go a chance to try the original Wen, and after find out about their marketing games I don't really want to.(all this information dates back to about year and a half ago, when I did the research on Wen. I don't know if things changed since them)
      In other news - did you ever try dry shampoo? Some people say that dry shampoo helps them to control oil at the roots and allows them to go longer between washes, which in tum helps with dryness of the ends. I can't confirm or deny that, as my hair doesn't get along with dry shampoo. Mostly because you need to brush it out, but I brush my hair it turns into pile of frizz. The only way to resolve that is to get them wet. So I might as well just wash (or co-wash) them and skip the dry shampoo.

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    3. Your blog must be where I read about that, because it sounds really familiar! So weird and shady.
      I love dry shampoo, but even using it, I can't go much more than 36 hours without washing my hair or it looks really dirty. I like to use it if I shower at night, because then it keeps my hair looking clean all the next day, but if I try to skip an entire day of washing, most dry shampoos can't hack it. Supposedly you can train your hair to be less oily by washing less? But I kind of wonder if people just get used to it. My hair isn't really thick enough for it not to be noticeable if it's dirty.

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  2. Who on the Earth finds hair cut a relaxing experience??? I usually wait as long as I can and then some more. My personal record is close to two years. I share all of your concerns, minus glasses as I usually wear contacts, but my hair is curly, which makes getting decent cut even harder. And the fact that they usually try to sell you something is one of the most unpleasant parts of the whole process. I just don't know how to tell someone nicely that at least part of their professional knowledge is false. So I usually end up lying. I hate lying, but I don't enjoy open confrontation either. It's easier to say something like "Oh, I'll stop by to pick something up after my pay day". It is unfair to both stylists and clients that stylists receive such a biased training. Sometimes I really want a professional hair advice, but I have nowhere to turn.
    I actually read The Beauty Brain post (along with some comments) yesterday and found it very informative and amusing. It is really a shame that they lost their archive, I would love to read about the test they did.
    While I personally do not use Pantene, as my curls look much better without sulfates and silicones, I have a few friends who swear by it and their (straight) hair looks great. It really boils down to what works for your hair. And price tag does not determine weather or not the product will work for your hair, the ingredients do. I lost faith in salon brands after realizing they made out the same stuff (for the most part) as drugstore shampoos and conditioners. I've encountered one salon brand shampoo that I liked, and later, when I started reading labels it turned out that it was sulfate-free. Thankfully, these days you can find sulfate-free option among drugstore shampoos.

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    1. Ha, I have a had a lot of people tell me they love getting their hair cut! Some people really like having someone else wash their hair, I guess. I usually don't have trouble getting a decent cut, since my hair is really straight and neither really thick nor thin, so I'm spoiled, I admit. I guess I should just lie next time and say I use whatever brand the salon is selling. Maybe then they would miraculously tell me I had healthy hair? But I don't like lying either, and I'm also really bad at it.

      One of my friends has the most gorgeous curly hair, and she avoids sulfates and silicones too. She told me she doesn't use silicone because you need sulfates to clean it out of the hair, which I don't think is exactly correct. But whatever the reason, that method (Curly Girl?) clearly works well for curly hair. Maybe it's because you don't want anything either coating the hair or stripping it too much, so you go with simpler/gentler options? You obviously know more about this than me! But yeah, that's exactly the point - if I used the same products she does/you do, even if they were "natural" and expensive, my hair wouldn't look as good -- and if she used even the most expensive products I've ever had good luck with, her hair wouldn't look as good.

      And thank you for mentioning the comments - I hadn't gone back to look at the post since I read it when it first went up. Very entertaining!

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    2. Getting you hair washed, and, especially, your scalp massaged is definitely a perk, but worry about the end result of this affair ruins the experience for me.
      Yeah, I always wondered what hairdresser would say if I'm already using the stuff they are about suggest. I think they would say that my hair is still dry/damaged, and try to sell me a mask or oil or something like that. Most hair care lines these days include more than just shampoo/conditioner.
      Some parts of the theory why silicones/sulfates don't work for curly hair the way they do for straight hair, are a bit... well... inconsistent, as well as their recommendations. For example, in the book they tell you not to blowdry your hair, but stylists in Deva Chan salons (founded by the book author) do blowdry all clients, unless you specifically request otherwise. Also, some stylists speculate (and I think they may have a point) that Deva styling products work better when "sealed in" with heat of a blow dryer. Regardless, most of their recommendations when put to test do work for me.

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  3. I hate haircuts! Neighbourhood barbers are terrible and normal salons are so expensive. My last good haircut was like $47 (maybe $35 usd?) Which terrified me. I also hate the hardselling. That was part of the reason i shaved my head, so that i didnt need to deal with hair for at least a year. I plan to just keep it long, long, long so that i simply don't need to cut it at all.

    I love the video you put up. After i had my daughter i realized that the simplest things amused her endlessly and it made me reconsider so much in my life.

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    1. You look great with your shaved hair! I have a bunch of weird moles on my scalp, which make that not the right look for me, I think. And I wish I could be as amused by something like a cardboard box as I was when I was a kid. I think losing that is one of the saddest things about growing up.

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  4. I have no idea where you are (which is probably good because I imagine it'd be creepy if I did?) but I can recommend someone in the MSP suburbs. My lady is great. She understands that I don't want to be 'styled' after a cut (because my hair has gotta be wash and go or else we've failed at doing the right cut), she doesn't bug me about products, but is always ready with a recommendation if I ask for one, doesn't give me shit about my undyed gray streaks (I like them so I purposely don't cover them), and she just all around does good work. I have no idea how she'd do with curls, as my hair is stick-straight (just LARGE - it was standing straight up this morning and it would have added 4 inches to my height), but no matter what style I'm going for, it always looks great when she's done. I think it helps her attitude that hairstylist is her post-early-retirement career, so she hasn't spent her whole working life immersed in salon culture. So if anyone wants a rec for this area, let me know!

    Product-wise, I tend to use an assortment of medicated things for my dandruff/eczema/whatever the hell it is and stuff my mom rejected for pulling the dye out of her hair, and both of those range from dollar-store to salon/Sally Beauty stuff, and my hair is just fine, and was even when it was halfway down my back. I feel like it actually should be crappier than it is, with how I treat it - hooray for good genes! I don't particularly like Pantene specifically, but that's more a combination of 'why bother when Suave is cheaper' and the scents, rather than because it's 'so bad for your hair'. I definitely don't expect anyone else to agree with me there - Mom used it for years with great success.

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    1. If I ever end up in that area, I will definitely get your recommendation! That sounds perfect. I haven't used Pantene myself in years, but it seems to be the most vilified of the drugstore brands. You'll get the same general criticisms of drugstore products in general (build-up, not nourishing, etc.), but with an extra dose of horror if you mention the P-word. Suave makes some great stuff, too, but I actually don't like most of the fragrances they use, and so I avoid them.

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  5. Love Surly Sundays!

    I use Dove and Clear from the drugstore and sometimes go high-end with a styling product just for the hell of it, like MoroccanOil just because it smells amazing and is good at taming frizz. But that stuff doesn't "nourish" the hair like people think it does. I avoid Pantene because their ads repel me.

    Over the years, I found that most hair stylists aren't great listeners, which is why I keep seeking out new stylists. They pay better attention when you explain what you want in a cut, but when you try to engage with them in actual conversation beyond their usual chatter, they're not into it. (Who wants to bare their soul to a stranger? Heh.) Basically, turn the questions around on them. At that point, they usually stop talking and focus entirely on the hair and I enjoy the quiet.

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    1. See, I haven't had great luck with Dove and Clear, but that makes sense, because we seem to have quite different hair types/issues. And yeah, most of those smoothing "oil" products contain silicone too, which is a big part of what makes them work. It's so silly.

      That's a good strategy, although it can backfire and you end up having to hear about a stranger's hypothetical wedding plans for 40 mins. (I am clearly just an asshole!)

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